[Skip to main content](#vessel-content) # Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop? ## - **[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")** - [![zoomyman's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman) Less More - Posts: 37 - Thank you received: 2 - - 15 years 5 months ago [\#17013](#17013) by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") *[Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#17013 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* was created by *[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")* Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile")** - [![nicolas's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar63.png)](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile") - [ Away](/forum/user/63-nicolas) Less More - Posts: 86292 - Thank you received: 14270 - - 15 years 5 months ago [\#17020](#17020) by [nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile") Replied by *[nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#17020 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* No. There is no attribution system where you can give one unit of a list of things to a user based on his order. That's in the todo list but not possible actually unless you build a plugin for hikashop for that by following the developer documentation. Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")** - [![zoomyman's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman) Less More - Posts: 37 - Thank you received: 2 - - 15 years 5 months ago [\#17022](#17022) by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Replied by *[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#17022 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* Please PM me about the possible price of this plugin. Regards, Zoomyman Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[Ludwig von Mises](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile")** - [![Ludwig von Mises's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises) Less More - Posts: 11 - Thank you received: 0 - - 15 years 4 months ago [\#18215](#18215) by [Ludwig von Mises](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile") Replied by *[Ludwig von Mises](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#18215 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* I would also like to know. Please PM me, too about this. I am willing to pay for it. Thanks. Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile")** - [![nicolas's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar63.png)](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile") - [ Away](/forum/user/63-nicolas) Less More - Posts: 86292 - Thank you received: 14270 - - 15 years 4 months ago [\#18288](#18288) by [nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile") Replied by *[nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#18288 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* I've transfered your request to the person in charge of custom works and he should contact you tomorrow. Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")** - [![zoomyman's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman) Less More - Posts: 37 - Thank you received: 2 - - 15 years 3 weeks ago [\#26593](#26593) by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Replied by *[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#26593 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* I have got the solution implemented. If anybody is interested please PM me. Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")** - [![zoomyman's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman) Less More - Posts: 37 - Thank you received: 2 - - 15 years 1 week ago - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27422](#27422) by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Replied by *[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27422 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* Hello everyone, I have a solution for the recent version (1.5.4) of HikaShop. If anyone is interested, please PM me. Regards, ZoomyMan Last edit: 15 years 1 week ago by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile"). Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile")** - [![nicolas's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar63.png)](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile") - [ Away](/forum/user/63-nicolas) Less More - Posts: 86292 - Thank you received: 14270 - - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27433](#27433) by [nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile") Replied by *[nicolas](/forum/user/63-nicolas "View nicolas's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27433 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* Hi, I'm interested actually ![:)](/media/kunena/emoticons/8.png ":)") Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")** - [![dado023's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2265-dado023) Less More - Posts: 116 - Thank you received: 1 - - 15 years 1 week ago - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27453](#27453) by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") Replied by *[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27453 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* Nicolas pointed me to this thread here, because i mentioned to him i need web-shop with ability to sell PIN numbers or cdkeys. Will this solution be publicly available, or it is only on PM basis contact? Kind regards Daniel Last edit: 15 years 1 week ago by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile"). Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")** - [![zoomyman's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman) Less More - Posts: 37 - Thank you received: 2 - - 15 years 1 week ago - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27459](#27459) by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile") Replied by *[zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27459 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* The solution we offer is a Custom Solution and will never be publically available. Every online shop will need to be modified individually to get PIN sent via email, which means the core files modification is required. Which might mean the future software updates will be more complex than usual. But it works for us and we can not see any reason why it should not work for you. In a few words: we use this logic to sell TopUp PINs. There are only 3 products with PIN delivery feature in our online store. There could be more, no problem here. You will need to specify ID's of the products which do not have PIN at all (not sure if it is suitable if you have thousands of products). Each product can have multiply PINs stored in DB. Pins are sent via email automagically to the customer once the order status changes to 'confirmed'. Admin can add those PINs using import function via the special page with is only accessible from the front end to the user who has got an administrator access level. The order number is recorded for the admin's reference to be able to track which SN/PIN was sent to which order. The solution is not the most elegant in the world, because will require one 3rd party component installation and, as mentioned before, some core files modifications, but once implemented does it's job very well. Also the product creation and stock level ajustment are manual from the backend (just like normally done), so admin will need to work on both sides of the website to get things done. Hope that makes sence. [ ![[img](http://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/pic1-20111017.jpg) ](http://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/pic1-20111017.jpg "[img") - [ ![pic1-20111017.jpg](/forum/attachment/1881) ](/forum/attachment/1881 "pic1-20111017.jpg") [ ](/forum/attachment/1881?download=1 "pic1-20111017.jpg") Last edit: 15 years 1 week ago by [zoomyman](/forum/user/2352-zoomyman "View zoomyman's Profile"). Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")** - [![dado023's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2265-dado023) Less More - Posts: 116 - Thank you received: 1 - - 15 years 1 week ago - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27461](#27461) by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") Replied by *[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27461 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* instead of PINs, can i add URL links like these?: [ dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/Wor...7457-827971-8176.jpg](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/WorldOfWarcraft/EU/TimeCard/201101081850_2052-215565-57457-827971-8176.jpg) [ dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/Wor...5132-473986-7034.jpg](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/WorldOfWarcraft/EU/TimeCard/201101081851_9842-761900-35132-473986-7034.jpg) [ dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/Wor...4994-733856-4705.jpg](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/WorldOfWarcraft/EU/TimeCard/201101081852_0235-029067-34994-733856-4705.jpg) [ dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/Wor...6552-872848-2609.jpg](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/WorldOfWarcraft/EU/TimeCard/201101081853_0841-266449-16552-872848-2609.jpg) [ dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/Wor...3887-520233-1998.jpg](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1422648/CDkeys/2011/WorldOfWarcraft/EU/TimeCard/201101081854_2456-464034-83887-520233-1998.jpg) Beacuse my pins are scanned images Last edit: 15 years 1 week ago by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile"). Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[Ludwig von Mises](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile")** - [![Ludwig von Mises's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises) Less More - Posts: 11 - Thank you received: 0 - - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27485](#27485) by [Ludwig von Mises](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile") Replied by *[Ludwig von Mises](/forum/user/2825-ludwig-von-mises "View Ludwig von Mises's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27485 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* I think it's great that people are working on PIN solutions for Joomla! shopping carts, as I believe there is demand for it. That said, I want to warn everyone planning to sell PIN codes with a website. I managed to get a PIN solution working for VirtueMart and quickly abandoned it. The main problem has to do with chargebacks. If a dispute is filed, online payment processors like to see lots of interaction between the shop and the customer via emails. If you do not have this interaction with the customer you will likely lose the dispute, even if the PIN has been redeemed by the customer. I am not talking about people buying codes, redeeming them, and then opening a claim on the grounds that the PIN code was not valid or already used. I'm talking about claims of unauthorized use of the credit card or PayPal account. If all you have to show is an order# and a system email sent out, you will likely suffer the chargeback along with some cancellation fees. I think the solution to this is to add some interaction with the customer into the PIN system. For example, an email can be sent thanking the customer for the order, with a link that "activates" the code in the DB. Once the link is clicked, the PIN is ready for transfer to the customer. The client should be required to either log in and download the PIN code, or log in and click another link that tells HikaShop to email the code, either in the body of the email or as an attachment. These extra coding steps were way too deep for me, and my humble shop could not warrant the investment necessary to hire this work out. I wish everyone good luck in your endeavours. Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")** - [![dado023's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2265-dado023) Less More - Posts: 116 - Thank you received: 1 - - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27548](#27548) by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") Replied by *[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27548 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* i completely agree with you, because fraudulent customers will always exist, but this risk is usually calculated in price. I have been scammed for around 600USD with selling PINs, and since then, i always do a manual check of every customer, phone number verification, requesting scanned IDs...etc. Fraudulent customer will usually go away after first verification step. I am not sure if there is any full proof protection from charge-backs, i think not. just 2cents from my expirience Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")** - [![dado023's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2265-dado023) Less More - Posts: 116 - Thank you received: 1 - - 15 years 1 week ago [\#27563](#27563) by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") Replied by *[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#27563 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* @zoomyman Would you please be so kind and send me an answer to my PM ![:)](/media/kunena/emoticons/8.png ":)") Thanks Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. - **[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")** - [![dado023's Avatar](https://www.hikashop.com/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") - [ Offline](/forum/user/2265-dado023) Less More - Posts: 116 - Thank you received: 1 - - 14 years 10 months ago [\#33746](#33746) by [dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile") Replied by *[dado023](/forum/user/2265-dado023 "View dado023's Profile")* on topic *[Re: Instant PIN Delivery using HikaShop?](/forum/4-how-to/17013-instant-pin-delivery-using-hikashop#33746 "Hello Everybody, Is it possible to sell calling cards PIN numbers using Hikashop? Regards, Zoomyman")* @zoomyman please check your private message thanks Please [Log in](/login?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlrYXNob3AuY29tL2ZvcnVtLzQtaG93LXRvLzE3MDEzLWluc3RhbnQtcGluLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LXVzaW5nLWhpa2FzaG9wP3RtcGw9bWFya2Rvd24=) or [Create an account](/component/users/registration?Itemid=101) to join the conversation. 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