Type of relation - Renewal or Creation & Renew before expiration period

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1 year 7 months ago #346190

-- HikaShop version -- : 4.6.2
-- HikaSerial version -- : 4.0.1
-- Joomla version -- : 3.10.11
-- PHP version -- : 7.4.32
-- Browser(s) name and version -- : Chrome

Hi guys,
with Product > Type of relation: Renewal or Creation - it will create subscription and can be used for renewal (manually or recurring). Buying multiple products in the same order will create one single subscription and extend its duration.

So, let me say that the Product A is linked to Plan A that add users to the Registered A user group.
The Product A cost 10 $ and its duration is 1 month.
If the user buy 5 Product A the Subscription to the Plan A will be 1 and its duration will be 5 months, Right ?

Now, the Subscription Plan A is not expired yet and user buy again 8 (quantity) Product A.
As far as I understand the Subscription Plan A expiration will be extended of 8 months, right ?

But, What happen if we have:
HikaSerial > Configuration > Subscription Options > Main > Authorize renew before expiration date: Yes
HikaSerial > Configuration > Subscription Options > Main > Renew before expiration period: 2 months

With the Product > Type of relation: Renewal or Creation setting the user can buy the "Product A" at any time, or the "2 months" before the expiration period are mandatory to be able to buy again the "Product A" ?!?

Last edit: 1 year 7 months ago by joomleb. Reason: title mistake

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1 year 7 months ago #346203

Hello,

1 - No.
Buying 5 products will create 5 subscriptions.
You can buy a renewal via the HikaShop workflow ; when you renew you need to link it with "which subscription" you want to renew.
The software can't decide it for you.

2 - If you use the right workflow, yes. Otherwise you can't renew

3 - The settings indicates the moment when the customer can perform a renewal.
Since it's different workflow, the way you see it is not possible.

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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1 year 7 months ago #346242

Hi Jerome,
Please, What do you mean exactly with "HikaShop workflow" ?

1 - Be careful, I wrote: "Renewal or Creation" that "...will create subscription and can be use for renewal (manually or recurring). Buying multiple products in the same order will create one single subscription and extend its duration. Renewal can only be use for renewal in the HikaSubscription interface..."

We'd like to add a Subscription price per month, so the quantity would be the subscription months duration (with discounts for quantities)

So, Please, What am I missing ? What is exactly the difference from:
- Creation then Renewal will create subscription and can be use for renewal (manually or recurring).
Buying multiple products in the same order will create multiple subscriptions.

We'd like to permit renewal from the same Product interface, buying the same Product as the first time user done.
This is really too important because our users are very limited and we are wasting a lot of time teaching them (often we loose the customer), so we must be very careful to try to keep everything as simple as possible.
Please, Is there a way to limit the Subscription Plan to 1 and to permit to buy the same product, but to consider it as "renew" if the user has yet an active Subscription ? (Without to force user to entry in the HikaSubscription interface" and to click on "Renew")

If there is no option to do it in a hidden way (just buying the same Subscription Product), Is there any trick / tip to add renewal as Product Variant ?

Last edit: 1 year 7 months ago by joomleb.

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1 year 7 months ago #346251

Hello,

In order to perform a renewal on an existing subscription, you must go through the HikaSubscription process via the "Subscription" section in the User Control Panel.
Only there you can do such action on an existing subscription.

The "HikaShop workflow" means that you're adding the product via an HikaShop page (product page, product listing, hikashop module).
It's not possible to select the subscription to renew when you're in the HikaShop product page.
(It's something we have in our TODO list for future improvements)

The difference between "creation then renewal" and "renewal or creation" is the way that multiple quantity is handled at the order confirmation.
"Creation then renewal" will create as many subscription than the quantity in the order/cart.
"Renew or create" will create one subscription and extend it depending the quantity in the order/cart.

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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1 year 7 months ago #346333

Hi Jerome,
okay. I'm keeping the two situation separated. Here I'm speaking about: Type of relation - Renewal or Creation option. Be careful NOT the "Creation then Renewal" option.

So, for example, on the site we have a normal free Registration that will add the users to the Registered A user group.
When logged the user can buy:
- the Product B linked to Plan B that add users to the Registered B user group.
- the Product C linked to Plan C that add users to the Registered C user group.
Users will can migrate between Plans, but always just 1 Plan, so they will be added to Registered B user group OR Registered C user group. While they will be always into the standard free Registered A user group.
Now, let me say that the Product B cost 10 $ and its duration is 1 month. If the user buy 3 (Quantity) Product B in the same order the Subscription End Date to the Plan B will be 3 months.

A - Bug - In the Subscription Details it is shown the "Duration" column that is not reflecting the really duration of the order (1 x 3 = 3 months). Despite the "End Date" is correct, this is confusing customers and, also, the "End Date" is another thing, is the last end date of the subscription and not the subscription duration bought with the order. I add for you an image. Please, Can you replicate and confirm it ?

B - If I'm yet Subscribed to the Plan B and I buy again the Product B, another Plan B Subscription is created = Bug. Please, Can you replicate and confirm it ?
This is the Renewal or Creation option. An active Subscription should never be duplicated, but, if active, the Total Duration period order (quantity x duration) should be added to the End Date.

C - Right now if I click on "User CP > Subscription > Renew" the Product Subscription Duration is added to the cart, 1 month and not the months I bought on the last order. And, there is no any way to select the "Quantity" during this workflow = Bug. Please, Can you replicate and confirm it ?

D - PS - Right now there is a way to set "Product > Restrictions and Dimensions > Access Level" when to show the Product, but there is no a way to choose "when to hide" the Product.
So, for example here, being that all users will always be added to the Registered A user group, there is no a way for me to hide the Product B when bought. (Something that it would be irrelevant with the solution of point B ).


3 - I do not understand how the setting:
- HikaSerial > Configuration > Subscription Options > Main > Authorize renew before expiration date: Yes
- HikaSerial > Configuration > Subscription Options > Main > Renew before expiration period: 2 months (for example)
is connected / should be the workflow with / depending on the "Product > Subscriptions > Type of relation options" setting.
Please, Can you help me on it ?

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Last edit: 1 year 7 months ago by joomleb.

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1 year 7 months ago #346339

Hello,

A - Thanks for the report.
Yes the quantity is not displayed in that table ; we should add it when it's superior than 1.

B - As I explained you previously, if you buy a product subscription VIA HikaShop, you can't perform a renewal.
So it's not a bug, it's something I already described.

C - When you go through the renewal via HikaSubscription, a special product is added into the cart.
You should be able to change the quantity directly in the cart.

D - You can, using HikaShop Business Product ACL.

3 - Starting 2 months before the expiration of the subscription, the customer will be able to perform a renew.
It means that, 3 months before the expiration, the renewal won't be proposed.

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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1 year 7 months ago #346415

Hi Jerome,

A - Thanks. I'll stay tuned.

B - "...it's something I already described..." = Sure. But the Type of relation - Renewal or Creation option should always run via HikaShop Product OR otherwise What is its difference with "Create the Renewal" ?

C - "...You should be able to change the quantity directly in the cart...." = No, I'm not. I add an image for you. Please, What am I missing ?

D - "...You can, using HikaShop Business Product ACL...." = As I wrote this is something related to the point B. As far as Know, I can't, because I should always to show that product for the Registered A user group (a logged user), while I should hide it if the logged user is into the Registered B / Registered C. Please, pay attention to my detailed previous example post

3 - Got it, thanks. Anyway:
- HikaSerial > Configuration > Subscription Options > Main > Renew before expiration period: 0 (days/weeks/months/years) menas "Always" - Am I right ?
Or an "always" option is a missing...

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1 year 7 months ago #346419

Hello,

B - I'll quote the message #346251

"Creation then renewal" will create as many subscription than the quantity in the order/cart.
"Renew or create" will create one subscription and extend it depending the quantity in the order/cart.

Having 3 products in your HikaShop cart will result :
"Creation then renewal" = 3 subscriptions of 1 month.
"Renew or create" = 1 subscription of 3 months.

C - Please provide your checkout workflow configuration.
It looks like your cart is in "read only" mode.

D - Please contact the HikaShop support team for that part.
They should be able tp propose you a solution regarding the management of the ACL on HikaShop products.

3 - As you concluded ; Due to the "yes/no" setting "Authorize renew before expiration", 0 means "always".

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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1 year 7 months ago #346474

Hi Jerome,

B - Yes, sure. What I mean is that if
- "Renew or create" = 1 subscription of 3 months
Then, I buy the Product (a second time) and it has in first of all to look also for "if I'm yet subscribed" (always OR there should be a selector setting "if always or not"). If Yes, it should treat the new buy as a renew. If no, it will create a new subscription.
OR, it means that "Renew or create" is running only the first time I buy the product and then it is acting like "Creation then renewal"

C - Here an image with the Checkout Workflow
As far as I know I'm not in "Read only".

D - Okay

3 - Got it, thanks.

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1 year 7 months ago #346481

Hello,

B - I'm sorry but I don't understand your question.
If you buy another type a subscription, via another cart/order : you will create a new subscription.
Once again : You can't renew via the HikaShop workflow (adding a product into the cart).

C - My bad, I see the code in the HikaShop core..
HikaSubscription is using a special type of cart, just like HikaAuction.
Theses cart types are handled differently by HikaShop which limit some user actions.
So, in your case, the best is to use Variants and when the customer wants to renew, he will have multiple choices for various renewal durations (and prices).

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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1 year 7 months ago #346496

Hi Jerome,

B - "...If you buy another type a subscription, via another cart/order : you will create a new subscription..."
You told me hat is in your TODO list the "renew from Product feature.
I'm suggesting, in case of "Type of relation - Renewal or Creation" option to add an option selector into "Product > Subscriptions" to tell Product if it has to look for "if I'm yet subscribed to that Plan", if yes it ill be processed as "Renewal"

This will solve the C question: there is no a way to permit to the user to choose the exact time period he wants Renew (quantity). He can only choose from predefined time periods (by using variants)

PS - the A fixing will be added into the HikaSubscription release (not HikaShop), Right ?

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1 year 7 months ago #346522

Hello,

Yes, the point A will be added into HikaSubscription since it's coming from HikaSubscription views.
It is something you can override if you want to customize the display and display more details ; but the extraction of the quantity might be tricky depending the source of the subscription history entry.

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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1 year 7 months ago #346647

Hi Jerome,
about the point D, that "would be solved by solving the other points", many thanks to Nicolas we found a temporally workaround that I want to put in evidence to you her e. Maybe it can be useful to find a final default solution...

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1 year 7 months ago #346665

Hello,

I do think that the import part from Nicolas message is

For the "access level" setting of the product to be usable, the Registered A user group should be removed when the user is added to the B or C user groups and in that case you could restrict it to the Registered A user group only.

The HikaSubscription Group Subscriber plugin has just one option to "add" a group (and remove when the subscription expires).
We have in our TODO list the addition of the "remove" option, so the plugin will remove the customer from specified groups.

The bigger problem is the action to perform when the subscription expires.
And we have multiple solutions :
- Store the removed groups in order to re-add the users into these groups.
- Do nothing for the "remove" but add a third setting which will specify in which group the user will be added when the subscription expires.

Both solutions have their advantages and drawbacks. Configurations of the plans would be different and handling the "migration" will also be different.

Regards,


Jerome - Obsidev.com
HikaMarket & HikaSerial developer / HikaShop core dev team.

Also helping the HikaShop support team when having some time or couldn't sleep.
By the way, do not send me private message, use the "contact us" form instead.

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